Be Part of the Change Episode 5: Working and Studying with ADHD - with Laura Pollard

The built environment comprises a diverse and exciting range of sectors, but there is still a lack of representation at every level. We want this to change.

‘Be Part of the Change’ is an awareness campaign with the purpose of celebrating the incredible success stories of our under-represented students, apprentices and alumni, as well as highlighting their challenges.

It’s also an opportunity to highlight the positive practices our employers are actioning within their organisations to inspire other companies in their approach.

In the fifth episode of our Be Part of the Change podcast, Jack Champion, Welfare Officer at UCEM, is joined by Laura Pollard, an Apprentice Surveyor at JLL currently studying Real Estate Management with UCEM.

The topics discussed on this episode include:

• How Laura first became aware of her ADHD
• The impact it's had on Laura's journey through work and education
• Laura's experience of ADHD support at UCEM
• Laura's tips and tricks for dealing with ADHD

Transcript

[00:02] Aysha: Hello and welcome to the Be Part of the Change podcast. This is UCEM’s new series that will explore the challenges and success stories faced by those from underrepresented backgrounds in the built environment. This episode is being recorded as part of Neurodiversity Celebration Week. If you are a UCEM student and would like to speak with our disability and welfare team, please raise an inquiry on Student Central or call the student advice telephone number on 018-921-4696.

[00:40] Jack: Hi, everyone, and welcome to another one of our podcasts as part of Neurodiversity celebration Week here at UCEM. My name's Jack and I'm part of the disability and welfare teams here and I'm joined by one of our students, Laura, to talk about ADHD. So thank you for joining me, Laura, how are you doing to.

[00:58] Laura: I'm very well, thanks, Jack. How are you?

[01:01] Jack: Good, yeah, I'm not too bad, thank you. So tell us about yourself. Which course are you studying and where are you working?

[01:08] Laura: I am currently doing the Chartered Surveyor degree apprenticeship with UCEM. So, yeah, I'm an apprentice doing an undergrad at the moment in real estate management. I'm going into my final year, so my fourth year and I'm working at JLL Jones laying this out.

[01:26] Jack: Lovely. Thank you. Lauret, going into your final year must be an exciting feeling, but also I know the pressure can amp up sometimes.

[01:32] Laura: Yes, definitely. Yeah, no, it's going to get. It's going to ramp up for sure in the last year, so I don't know whether to be nervous or excited for the fact it's nearly over, but.

[01:42] Jack: Yeah, I think a mix of both is going to be perfectly natural.

[01:46] Laura: Yeah, exactly.

[01:48] Jack: So can you tell us about your experience of receiving a diagnosis of ADHD?

[01:54] Laura: Yeah, of course. So when I was, I think it was nearly three or four years ago now, maybe three years ago, I didn't really know what ADHD was, I didn't have any awareness about it. It was actually my mum who suggested it to me. She was studying neurology at the time and she told me a bit about it and I did think, oh, that does make a lot of sense. So, yeah, three years ago I was on the NHS waitlist to have an assessment. I think it was a year after that because it was just taking too long to get an assessment, so ended up going through the private route with a psychiatrist for the assessment. I was asked a lot of questions. My mum was there as well, they went through old school reports and yeah, when I was told I had it. I kind of felt very relieved. It was something. Yeah, it was something that I kind of thought I had, but it just explained a lot because all of the struggle that I'd felt over my childhood and growing up, it made a lot of sense as to why I felt very different to other people. Yeah, it was just a big, oh, that makes sense moment, I guess.

[03:07] Jack: Yeah, yeah. I really hear what you're saying. When it was introduced to you a few years prior and you didn't know a lot about it, then suddenly like, oh, okay, that maybe makes sense for me. And actually building up to. I know how long the NHS waiting lists can be, and it's so great that you were able to access a private diagnosis and that sense of relief that you get when you hear, yeah, we agree. We think this is the way your brain works, and there is a kind of, oh, okay. It's not just me. There is actually something else at play here, and it's really great to have that understanding as well, moving forward.

[03:42] Laura: Yeah, exactly. I definitely. There was definitely a big weight off my shoulders as to thinking, okay, there's not something really wrong with me. Yeah. Like you said, just to have someone say, like, confirm it in your head, a big step for me.

[03:59] Jack: Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that's something that is maybe a little bit different about being diagnosed as an adult, because you don't have that understanding for so long. I think children who are diagnosed perhaps through cams, it's just something they grow up with. Whereas when you are left not quite understanding yourself for so many years, I think either there can be a sense of relief or sometimes when I was diagnosed as an adult, there was a little bit of anger, I suppose, a little bit of a grieving period of, why didn't I have this understanding earlier that would have been so helpful? And there was definitely a mix of the two in there for me, so it's really nice to hear that for you, it was just a sense of, thank goodness I know what's going on now and I have this perspective.

[04:43] Laura: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It was almost like what I'd say that I felt, because I remember feeling really emotional when I first had that confirmation, but it was almost like a morning of my old self. I don't have to describe it, all those years as a child of just you kind of look back and go, oh, I wish I knew sooner just to helps that little girl understand a bit more.

[05:09] Jack: Yeah, I think you described it perfectly, Laura, that morning of the little version of you. What would they have been like if they had this understanding. I think you hit the nail on the head there.

[05:21] Laura: Yeah.

[05:22] Jack: And so what has your journey through education and work been like? And with ADHD, do you feel like that's affected it?

[05:32] Laura: Yes. Is the long and short answer with work? Maybe. I think for me, I'd always found when I got into a job, I always found the practical working a little bit easier, maybe hands on job I enjoyed a bit more. I found it good to sort of work around people. But previously, before that, the education I had at school had always felt very, very tough. And it always felt like, why does everyone else seem to be getting on with it so much more easily than me? It just felt like I was almost trying and trying so hard to not compete, but to be on the same level of everyone else. Like just normal day to day tasks, like organizing myself, all of these things. Laura's forgotten this book, Laura's, you know, missed this deadline. All of this stuff, like, how can I not get a grip of this? It felt like it was just impossible. Stuff at school that I enjoyed seemed to be fine, but then other stuff that would just be so long, so difficult. Teachers, remember, would always comment to my parents saying that I had a lot of energy, but I just couldn't concentrate, maybe, yeah, that was quite loud, disruptive in classes and, yeah, I think at school, no one really knew what ADHD was as well. It sort of didn't feel like, well, maybe it was recognized as something completely different. It was seen as like a very, like, hyperactive thing. So now I think people know a lot more about it. But that's just in recent years. But no, I think at school I was tested for dyslexia a few times, sort of mild dyslexia, but, like, nothing really explaining why it was such a struggle. Yeah. As I got older, I think is why I became particularly good at masking my symptoms. Quite a lot of the time I'd be nodding and saying I understood when no one was there. Up top. Yeah. I'd actually get to the point where I was so worried about saying stuff impulsively that I'd probably decide to not really speak at all. Just became quite quiet and withdrawn when I was sitting. When I was. I remember when I did have sort of hyperactive moments, I remember sitting on my hands for quite a lot of the time. It's a random thing, but it would just help me to sort of stay a bit in my chair and, yeah, that was probably. It was a difficult time through education, let's just say, of non understanding.

[08:21] Jack: You touch on quite a few things there that really resonate with me and my experience. And I know a lot of the experience of other students I've spoken with. I used to sit on my hands as well just to try. It was quite grounding to try and stay focused. I was like, no, I'm not going to fidget. I'm going to stay still. And that, like you say, people in schools, at least when you were going through school or your particular teachers, I think for so long, the understanding of ADHD was hyperactive behavior. And stereotypically it was little boys who can't stay in their seat and they're loud and they interrupt and they're not going to follow the rules. And when you bring masking into the equation, when you monitor those symptoms, you think, no, I actually want to present differently. People then go, okay, there's something here. Could it be dyslexia? And you go down different routes until eventually the understanding has developed and suddenly as an adult, you go, well, all along it was ADHD. And so I really see how that has such an impact for you in your journey through education and work, particularly with the frustration of not being able to do as well and thinking, why am I not able to meet this deadline? Why am I not able to focus? Why am I not getting this content when everyone else seems to be getting it so easily? I think so often for people who are neurodivergent and particularly with ADHD, we turn those frustrations inward because we think it must be something wrong with me. I must be the problem here. And I think that's why having that understanding several years later can be such a mixture of relief and mourning. Because I was beating myself up for so many years about not being able to get it and it being so much harder for me than everyone else. Now I have an answer.

[10:12] Laura: Yeah, I don't know if you found this as well, but I certainly found that lots of people had their opinions already on what ADHD washing. And so people would sort of turn around to me and say, oh, no, that's just you. You're just messy, or you're just this or you're just that. Don't be silly. You don't, you know, it is just you misbehaving or is just you not quite meeting the criteria that we have in mind. So I think it's just taken a really, really long time for everyone to learn more about it and. And I think, well, for me to certainly be more accepting of what I'm like and just because of other people's perceptions of what ADHD was. Slash is nowadays.

[10:59] Jack: I think that's totally understandable because it takes such a long time for external understanding to develop. When we're given so many other labels. Growing up lazy, not being able to focus, not trying hard enough, we can internalize those. And so it takes a while to unlearn those messages that we've been given all throughout our education. It's hard.

[11:22] Laura: Yeah, it's funny hearing you say those exact labels because I think that it's just the exact same ones that I got growing up as well. It's just like, doesn't try hard enough, lazy. And I think, yeah, especially I didn't know you had it either. So I always find it very interesting speaking to people that have had a similar experience because you do just feel very alone in it when you're growing up and then realizing when you get diagnosed that there are other people out there that feel exactly the same. I've been told the same thing, are like, oh my God, I thought I was the person in the world.

[11:56] Jack: Yeah, exactly. Well, I'm glad that we can connect with it because everything you're saying is really resonating with me and I'm sure it will with anyone who comes to listen to this in the future as well who has ADHD themselves.

[12:09] Laura: I hope so.

[12:10] Jack: So with those kind of comments on what it was like going through earlier educational systems, what has your experience of ADHD support been like at UCEM?

[12:23] Laura: Do you know what? Really positive. Since getting diagnosed, I felt extremely nervous about returning to the studying stage of life again and, you know, academic side of work because of all that, all of the previous experience, the previous experience I had at school. So in my head, the education system were going to treat me one way. I guess it was very different because, you know, it's, it was one subject, it's part time. And I had no idea that UCEM would be really clued up on what ADHD was. Have a big understanding around it, actually more so than I even thought I knew at the time. And yeah, they just put a lot of support in place, which I never really had at school. So I think I have stuff like my clear link sessions. I found every help to sort of keep me on track. I have extended deadlines, which is sometimes good. It's not because deadlines for ADHD, if they get extended, it doesn't really make sense, that much of a difference. But yeah, I just felt very listened to and understood about the struggles that ADHD brings from UCEM. Yeah.

[13:42] Jack: Thank you, Laura. That's lovely to hear. On a couple of accounts. One, as someone who has ADHD and knows what letdowns there can be with support available, and also as someone who works for the disability team at UCEM and hearing that you had such a positive experience here, we do really try to have that deeper understanding of what impact does ADHD have on someone who studies here and what is it that we can do to help. So I'm really pleased to hear that the clear link sessions you have a useful specialist mentoring, which is either available for our apprentices or students often get it through disabled students application if they're on one of our non apprenticeship programs. That's such a great help. And like you say, the deadlines for some students, if you just say, great, we'll pop in a 14 day extension for you. That's just a two week delay on that final, that infancy that you have to do the assignment is just two weeks later. So sometimes the conversation I have is, we have the option of extensions. Is it going to be useful? Because I know for me I need that pressure to get started. So if I'm just delaying it by two weeks, I don't know how much help that's actually giving.

[15:05] Laura: Yeah, no, the delaying it and I just think. I don't think there's been a single time where I haven't left it to the last minute, unfortunately. Like, it's just the way I operate, like you, is just the pressure gets the hyper fixation going and all of that.

[15:26] Jack: Yeah, yeah. So often it's that urgency that gets ADHD brains in action and hyper fixation really nicely segues into my next question, which is, with yourself, what do you find are your personal strengths with ADHD and any challenges related to ADHD?

[15:48] Laura: It's just so, like, to encapsulate it in a few words is quite difficult because it just feels like your entire life is affected by it, I guess with personal strengths I might, like you mentioned already, and I think I touched on the hyper fixation is sometimes brilliant. It means that I get sometimes very high periods of energy. I will work on something and it will sometimes literally be like, you can't get me away from it. If I'm interrupted, I get very annoyed, leave me in my zone two to 3 hours sometimes just undisturbed to the point where I'm like, ok, I need to probably eat something now. That being said, it has its downfalls as well, doesn't it? With the downside being the hyper focus isn't always on the right thing. So, yeah, it can sometimes mean that I'm really focused, but just not on the right thing or it's sometimes really hard to get into that hyper focus, I find. And, yeah, it's just. It leaves me down a bit of a rabbit hole, I think, sometimes. But that being said, I probably couldn't operate properly without it. So I'd probably say another strength that ADHD probably brings is a. Is definitely a different perspective. I definitely, I've been told before, I think very out of the box. I'm quite imaginative. I have definitely different perspective. As I said, maybe, yeah, creativity is definitely something that I find comes in hand with it. But as again, I said before, can lead me down rabbit holes. It's sometimes not the most productive thing in the world. Be like being creative about everything. I don't know, is there anything that you find that lens itself to ADHD?

[17:58] Jack: I think what you say about hyper fixation is so, so apt. Hyper fixation, I think, is one of our superpowers. And once I'm in it, I can do a day's worth of work in a couple of hours. But like you say, I might then forget to eat, to drink. I might forget what the time is, I might forget another appointment that I meant to be going to. And it would be such a greater superpower if I could choose where I could enter that state of hyper fixation. If I could decide when that happens, that would be fantastic. But exactly. Like you say, we don't get as much of a say in that. And it might be that it's motivated by how much we enjoy something. If it's a creative endeavor that really gets the dopamine flowing in our brains, we're going to be going down that rabbit hole for a while.

[18:50] Laura: Yeah.

[18:50] Jack: And it might be great, but it also can have its detriments. And as well, one of the challenges is if I'm in that state and you interrupt me, you can get like this sense of anger. You're like, leave me alone. I was finally in something because I think it's so dysregulating to finally be focused on something and then be interrupted. The chance of me being able to go back into that state afterwards, it's like 50 50.

[19:19] Laura: Yeah, yeah, no, definitely. It's like a roll of dice, isn't it? But we're upset. The fact that your chances have been missed if someone interrupts you. But yeah, no, I think, yeah, the hyper focus is definitely brilliant, isn't it? I think it's sometimes very hard to get into that state. There. I've had sort of times where it's just really, really hard to tune in. I guess life feels a bit chaotic and just the downfalls feel like they're coming day after day. Yeah. It's not one thing, really, that is great about all of it, but, yeah, I'm definitely more sensitive to a lot of things from ADHD. I don't know if that is something that is related to ADHD, but I definitely feel like. I feel things very deeply, I think. Yeah, a lot of people would say that I maybe struggle to emotionally regulate myself quite a lot. So, yeah, there's definitely a lot of. I mean, I guess that means I feel quite empathetic towards people sometimes, which I guess is a. Is a pro. Maybe a drawback of that is the fact that it just feels like an overwhelming sense of emotion sometimes with other people, and I need to sort of take myself out of feeling so emotional about a situation that's not mine. Yeah.

[20:45] Jack: Already, though, you've touched on another strength that comes hand in hand with a challenge. Something that we talk about in the world of neurodiversity is spiky profiles. And that's basically where, if you had a wheel of cognitive abilities like emotional regulation, empathy, spatial awareness, critical thinking, verbal reasoning, you know, someone who is neurotypical would present a lot more evenly around the circle, whereas quite often is the case with neurodivergent individuals, you'll see spikes in. They've got excellent empathetic skills, but their ability to emotionally regulate is perhaps a little bit weaker than someone who's neurotypical.

[21:26] Laura: Right.

[21:26] Jack: So I don't think we can say it's not related to ADHD, but that advanced sense of empathy, the ability to feel things so deeply, is such a huge strength when making emotional connections. And whatever that looks like in personal or work relationships, it can be such an asset. But then on the other side of that coin is this difficulty with regulating the intensity of the emotion that you feel. And sometimes it can be disruptive and sometimes it's not super helpful. Yeah, I think that really rang true for me as well.

[22:04] Laura: Very interesting. Yeah, that's interesting what you say about neurotypical people having just being, like, the perfect circle. I mean, perfect circle, but all of the. Not feeling the spikes is intensely. Yeah, no, that's very interesting.

[22:22] Jack: And then with the challenges that you experience and maybe in recognition of some of the strengths that you have, do you have any tips on what you'd share with the life of someone who has ADHD?

[22:36] Laura: I would definitely say that it does take a lot to sort of know yourself and then what's right for me might not be right for the next person with ADHD. So it is difficult for me to say exactly. But for me, what helps for sure is the routine. The routine is really big for me. I need to have that sort of nine to five in my job, sort of everything needs to be in the right order for me. Otherwise if one thing gets thrown off, it's quite hard for me to feel like life doesn't get really chaotic again. My routine is big. My diet, my exercise definitely plays a massive part in it for me. I find that sometimes I need to regulate myself in terms of sugar. It's something that I suddenly have drops in and then I need to pick up and sort of suddenly get some on board exercise as well. Just. I definitely have that sort of endorphin rush after going for a run and it does just calm things a lot for me. That being said, I don't. I probably don't run as much as I should. It's not in. Yeah, in same way, my routine is probably the best thing. Yeah. It's just the balance, isn't it? Finding the balance of whatever works for you. And I'm still working out, to be honest. I sometimes find that, you know, some days with medication, that's always helped me a bit. Some days I'm just. I don't want it. It's a toolbox, I guess, but, yeah, a mixture of things. Diethye, routine, exercise. Yeah. How about you? Have you found that one particular thing is it helps you to work it out or.

[24:28] Jack: I think, like you say, it is such a lifelong task of getting to know myself and really understanding the way that my brain works. So whilst I have to definitely adapt it for my own routine, really common things that I think will resonate with a lot of people who have ADHD are exercise. That's such a huge one. Often the mental block of wanting to do exercise can be quite strong. But understanding the endorphin rush, just how regulating it can be for people who have ADHD. One of the main pieces of advice that was given when the UK has such a huge ADHD medication shortage was prioritize exercise, because it can be so regulating people who have ADHD. So those runs that you're going on are doing such a great benefit for them. And really interesting you say about sugar as well, because I definitely know that. And the big thing with ADHD and for myself is using sugar to regulate, is using food to soothe. If I'm just so overwhelmed. I'll seek it. And really being in touch with your body, noticing. Okay, I've had a bit of a dip and I need something, or maybe I've got enough, and maybe I need to taper down with something else or give a run to kind of regulate. Yeah, I connected with that, and it sounds like you have such a great developing understanding of what works for you. That's really lovely to hear.

[25:58] Laura: Yeah. It's getting there anyway, but, yeah, it's not. It's still. I think it would be naive of me to say that it's all figured out because it's just not yet, but it would. I hope it's getting there to one day be in a. When I look back, though, I think I'm actually in a much better place with how I deal with it than I was a few years ago. So I guess, like, looking at the progress and of my routine and how it's made such a difference is actually really good.

[26:28] Jack: Yeah. Having that perspective of what things were like before you had this understanding is so crucial because we can get caught up in the day to day so easily. It's nice to look back and go, I've actually come a really long way.

[26:40] Laura: Yeah. Yeah.

[26:41] Jack: And so that's. That's amazing. And quickly. And you don't have to answer this, but you mentioned medication, and I was wondering if you would feel comfortable commenting on how that's helped you and what that's been like.

[26:56] Laura: Yeah, no, I'd be comfortable with it. It's not something that I thought originally it would be for me. I think originally I tried to seek sort of. I want to say natural. Natural is probably the wrong word, but natural remedies. So, like you said, the diet, the exercise, the routine, I was always told that maybe I should give medication a go. So I did trial it for a bit, and then when I did it, it was like, wow, this is a fantastic way. Like, it just feels like it solves a lot for me. But just relying on purely medication, I think after a year of just having. Using that as sort of my. In my toolbox, it had a massive downside effect to it. You know, at the end of the day, I would get really, really anxious. I would struggle internally a lot. I would find myself not quite. It's a weird feeling. It's like you're not really yourself on it. And I sort of missed the old. By my normal self, it sounds very weird. Took me out of my usual thoughts and feelings. I felt very like it was almost controlled. So I've started to. It's something that I do need to help me when I study, but I do not feel like I need it in my day to day. Yeah, I take it when I feel like I need it, because some days are better than others, if that makes sense.

[28:27] Jack: Absolutely. Thank you for such a well rounded answer, because, like you say, it has its benefit. And on days where you need to study and focus, that is fantastic. But at other times, there is a side of it that takes you out of your usual experiences. And so focusing on what that relationship looks like for you is really important. And I think it's really insightful for anyone listening to this who thinks that maybe they want to try it.

[28:53] Laura: I think for a lot of people, they say it's changed their life. It's been amazing and I'm definitely not taking away from that. For some people with ADHD, it has been. It sold a lot of things and it's really useful. I think just for me, with my experience of it, I can't just rely on purely the medication. It needs to be, like I said, a toolbox of using other things. I think it's the same with a lot of things. You need an all rounded approach otherwise, because if you just take one thing, it's not going to solve all your problems.

[29:33] Jack: Beautifully said, laura. It's a toolbox. Absolutely. I think taking a holistic approach when managing your own ADHD is absolutely vital. So thank you. And finally, if there's anyone listening to this who thinks they might have ADHD, what would you say to them?

[29:49] Laura: I would say to talk to yourself with kindness and understanding. I think it's really, really difficult to be having those internal feelings and feeling like you're alone in the process. I mean, if it means getting tested for your peace of mind, then do that. But if. I think it is just mainly that there are other people out there that feel the same way and you don't need to give yourself such a hard time because it is very normal. And, yeah, to probably reach out to those around you, I'd say that maybe who saw you grow up, if you have that, who know you very well, I'd say speak to your support network. They'll maybe ask them, do you think I might have this? Or does this sound. Does this sound like I might have it? Yeah, just open up about it and don't let it be so internal. You can constantly think there's something wrong with you. Why can't I perform like everyone else? But it's not you. It's sort of. There's actually something with how you think it's different, but it's not normal. Not, not normal, if that makes sense.

[31:02] Jack: It absolutely does. And I think that self compassion piece is huge. Really monitor the way that you're talking to yourself because, you know, when we're internalizing those frustrations, it can become a bit mean and we can beat ourselves up. So recognizing that maybe we deserve a little bit of empathy ourselves and reaching out to someone else to talk about it, I think that's excellent advice. Thank you, Laura.

[31:26] Laura: No worries.

[31:28] Jack: Okay. I think that's a really nice way of rounding this off. So thank you so much for joining me today. It has been fantastic to hear your experience and thank you for being so open and honest here. Anyone listening? If you have any thoughts or questions about ADHD based on what you've heard today, please feel free to get in contact with us. You can reach out to the disability team by raising an inquiry on Student Central or giving them a call on zero 118-921-4696 using option two and check out some of the other events we've got going on for Neurodiversity celebration week. Thank you again, Laura, for joining me today. It's been lovely to have you and thanks everyone for tuning in.